Re: Libya In Crisis - Tuesday 22 Feb

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:31 pm

cab123 wrote:
Paddy wrote:
goodmockingbird wrote:TravelGov
.#Libya: U.S. citizens wishing to depart should proceed to As-shahab Port as soon as possible after 9:00 am & arrive no later than 10:00 am
1 minute ago via web
Do you have any where that port is.?

I cant get that port on a map to find it.Any idea where is is.?

Paddy I tried 3 different sites and maps,keep getting

global security in alexandria,VA USA i'll look some more

That's what I got.
TY.

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:39 pm

From what I know there is a US ship + 5/6 Turkish ships on there way there to get people out.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1298294927/last-1298381278/Turkey+is+evacuating+her+citizens+from+Libya

by **cab123** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:42 pm

Paddy wrote:
cab123 wrote:
Paddy wrote:
goodmockingbird wrote:TravelGov
.#Libya: U.S. citizens wishing to depart should proceed to As-shahab Port as soon as possible after 9:00 am & arrive no later than 10:00 am
1 minute ago via web
Do you have any where that port is.?

I cant get that port on a map to find it.Any idea where is is.?

Paddy I tried 3 different sites and maps,keep getting

global security in alexandria,VA USA i'll look some more

That's what I got.
TY.

paddy i did ggoogle earth fly over and the only port/dock i saw was Tripoli. nothing 100 miles east or west.

didn't know the coast was that barren

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:49 pm

cab123 wrote:
Paddy wrote:
cab123 wrote:
Paddy wrote:
goodmockingbird wrote:TravelGov
.#Libya: U.S. citizens wishing to depart should proceed to As-shahab Port as soon as possible after 9:00 am & arrive no later than 10:00 am
1 minute ago via web
Do you have any where that port is.?

I cant get that port on a map to find it.Any idea where is is.?

Paddy I tried 3 different sites and maps,keep getting

global security in alexandria,VA USA i'll look some more

That's what I got.
TY.

paddy i did ggoogle earth fly over and the only port/dock i saw was Tripoli. nothing 100 miles east or west.

didn't know the coast was that barren

As-shahab Port in central Tripoli, located on the sea road across from the Radisson Blu Mahari Hotel,

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:55 pm

Oh BTW Hi Everyone! Cool

by **cab123** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:55 pm

Thanks truth,
my google rev. dosn't show it.

by **Earth Cries** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:56 pm

Gaddafi orders oil sabotage, source tells Time columnist

Time Magazine's intelligence columnist reported on Tuesday that Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has ordered his security forces to sabotage the country's oil facilities, citing a source close to the government.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/22/us-libya-oil-time-idUSTRE71L6TK20110222?WT.tsrc=Social%20Media&WT.z_smid=twtr-reuters_%20com&WT.z_smid_dest=Twitter

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:56 pm

He who Seeks Truth wrote:Oh BTW Hi Everyone!

Hi and thanks. Smile

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:00 pm

Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:Oh BTW Hi Everyone!
Hi and thanks.

February 22, 2011: A U.S. Government chartered ferry will depart Tripoli from the As-shahab Port in central Tripoli, located on the sea road across from the Radisson Blu Mahari Hotel, for Valletta, Malta on Wednesday, February 23. Processing of passengers will begin promptly at 10:00 a.m. local time. U.S. citizen travelers wishing to depart should proceed as soon as possible after 9:00 a.m. to the pier and arrive no later than 10:00 a.m. U.S. citizens will be processed on a first-come, first-served basis, with priority given to persons with medical emergencies or severe medical conditions. The ferry will depart no later than 3:00 p.m.

by **cab123** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:04 pm

He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:Oh BTW Hi Everyone!
Hi and thanks.

February 22, 2011: A U.S. Government chartered ferry will depart Tripoli from the As-shahab Port in central Tripoli, located on the sea road across from the Radisson Blu Mahari Hotel, for Valletta, Malta on Wednesday, February 23. Processing of passengers will begin promptly at 10:00 a.m. local time. U.S. citizen travelers wishing to depart should proceed as soon as possible after 9:00 a.m. to the pier and arrive no later than 10:00 a.m. U.S. citizens will be processed on a first-come, first-served basis, with priority given to persons with medical emergencies or severe medical conditions. The ferry will depart no later than 3:00 p.m.

familar sig. Libya In Crisis - Tuesday 22 Feb - Page 14 352485

by **FFR77** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:08 pm

Godzilla85 wrote:
goodmockingbird wrote:
Godzilla85 wrote:any estimates on dead and injured right now?

Bare minimum 400 to 600 (long outdated figures of confirmed dead), realistic approximate minimum 1,400 dead from medical source this morning (US time), reasonable conservative expectations of 2,000 to 5,000 dead.

Rough approximations of 3 times as many injured as dead, but ratio is probably shifting as there are little to no blood or medical supplies left.

No one really knows anything even halfway accurate now. Sorry, can't quote sources, just bits of info here and there I picked up while scanning. Maybe someone else has something more reliable.

Thanks bird I appreciate the effort anyhow. General question to everyone.....how many more dead is it gonna take before some country actually does something aside from making statements or sending boats to evacuate people instead of just laying the hammer down on Gaddaffi cuz obviously the US president has no balls so it's gonna have to be up to Europe on this one I'm afraid.

Why is it the United States responsibility to intervene in a revolution in Libya, Egypt, Bahrain or any country for that matter? Libya is a soveriegn nation and should be allowed to solve its problems accordingly. Yes, it is very sad what is happening in Libya, but in the end the dictator will flee and likely be tried for his crimes. Is it the responsibility of the USA or Europe to remove Gaddafi tonight? Is it the responsibility of the USA or Europe to govern the country after they remove him, until elections will take place? How many hours after the USA removed Gaddafi would it be before the population demanded US troops be removed from the country? How would you suggest that the EU or USA go about intervening in a country going through a revolution, perhaps send out a memo that says all Gaddafi loyalists wear read and all opposition wear blue so the intervening military can differentiate friend from foe and no who to shoot as they move into the country?

Yes, President Obama should publicly condemn the violence in Libya, but simply giving a press conference to say "Bad Gaddafi, don't do that" will not do anything, and the response from Gaddafi will likely be akin to "I fart in your general direction".

I do not mean to be rude, and please do not take my comments as such. Please try to realize though that this is an extremely fast moving situation and as such it can be very difficult for an outsider to intervene and not do more harm than good. Remember how long the genocide in Bosnia took place before the United Nations / USA intervened to put an end to that.

Surprisingly enough, an operation to remove Gaddafi by the west would take weeks if not months of logistical planning and positioning of strategic resources to be successful. By the time the West would have the assets in place to coordinate with the opposition on the ground and execute a successful removal of Gaddafi, chances are this whole uprising will be over and Gaddafi will be hung until he is "dead, dead, dead".

The best hope for the people of Libya is for the military to side with them and remove Gaddafi themselves.

by **cab123** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:19 pm

FFR77,
welcome to our little world.
All of your points are valid and have been stated over the past few weeks.
I for one agree with the legal issues.
As to our(US)and posters op.'s I believe they're saying we have influance,us it.

by **Robert** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:20 pm

Paddy wrote:
Godzilla85 wrote:any estimates on dead and injured right now?

650 But that is from hospitals.

With the utter savagery of the attacks, the use of heavy artillery, helicopter gunships and fighter aircraft, I would expect the eventual death toll to be in the tens of thousands if not much more.

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:28 pm

The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:37 pm

Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:40 pm

Robert wrote:
Paddy wrote:
Godzilla85 wrote:any estimates on dead and injured right now?

650 But that is from hospitals.

With the utter savagery of the attacks, the use of heavy artillery, helicopter gunships and fighter aircraft, I would expect the eventual death toll to be in the tens of thousands if not much more.

I don't know what is used but this is not for fighting unarmed people.

Libya In Crisis - Tuesday 22 Feb - Page 14 6h4oy12

by **Aetius Romulous** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:41 pm

Libya is chock a bloc full of foreign nationals, most of whom can't get out. These people make ideal hostages when entered into a crazy mans calculus. A problem the world community has at the moment is that none dare set the crazy dude off on their people until they can get them out. And they are struggling to get their people out.

I think this is being under reported. Unlike the other states thus far, Libya has always been a rogue regime and there simply aren't the ties to the outside world that would allow for some kind of internal guarantee. Americans in particular are at risk, as are Italians, Turks, Egyptians, Tunisians, and dozens of others.

So I suspect there are plans being made behind the scenes to physically protect these nationals until they can be evacuated, plans which do not involve pissing off the madman.

Compared to Egypt, the international silence here is deafening, and especially so when one considers the humanitarian crisis in Libya which no other revolt has had thus far. This silence is no accident.

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:41 pm

He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:43 pm

Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:44 pm

He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html

Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

by **He who Seeks Truth** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:46 pm

Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html
Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

Owamba is in Cleveland...Remember!

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:49 pm

He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html
Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

Owamba is in Cleveland...Remember!

by **Paddy** Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:
He who Seeks Truth wrote:
Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html
Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

Owamba is in Cleveland...Remember!

What has that got to do with it where he is.
Can he not talk when there.?
He should be back by now.

by **Alaskan Girl** Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:05 pm

You may be quite right Aetius.
100,000 Egyptian nationals, 50,000 Bangladeshis, 30,000 Turks, 1,500 Italians, 18,000 Pakistanis, 18.000 indians, 2,000 Nepalis, 3,500 UK, unkown number of Americans, Chinese, Spanish and French are all in Libya right now.
No govt. will want to take responsibility for the possible massacre of these people.

by **Earth Cries** Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:06 pm

UN ambassadors clash over condemnation of Gaddafi

Russia and China show reluctance to join other security council members' plan to put pressure on Libyan leader...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/un-ambassadors-clash-gaddafi

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