Libya In Crisis - Tuesday 22 Feb

Paddy wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html

Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

Owamba is in Cleveland...Remember!

What has that got to do with it where he is.
Can he not talk when there.?
He should be back by now.

It never ceases to Amaze me how the World Reacts......
They Burn our Flags.... Curse us like Dogs....
And Blame all the Problems of the World on our "Western Imperialism"

Yet when something happens in the world the first question asked is... "Where are the Americans?" The Ugly Americans!

Now trust me here... I'm not defending Owamba.... I'm not exactly on his Christmas Mailing list! snicker!
But in the case of whats going on in Libya.... Until the Intel is conclusive... Statements may endanger citizens of EVERY Country who are currently trapped in state! This isn't Egypt or Tunisia! This can be Dangerous for EVERYONE evolved! Sometimes Discretion IS the better part of Valor!

From what I herd Greeks are getting Chinese out of there.

Rem the 8 b lone?

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:

He who Seeks Truth wrote:

Paddy wrote:The most that was asked from the US in the last few days was that Obama speak out against this.
Not a word.

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration on Tuesday reiterated its condemnation of bloody clashes between protesters and those loyal to the Libyan leader, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi

Who said that.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/world/africa/23diplomacy.html

Was it Obama and save me the reading.
OK it was not.

Owamba is in Cleveland...Remember!

What has that got to do with it where he is.
Can he not talk when there.?
He should be back by now.

It never ceases to Amaze me how the World Reacts......
They Burn our Flags.... Curse us like Dogs....
And Blame all the Problems of the World on our "Western Imperialism"

Yet when something happens in the world the first question asked is... "Where are the Americans?" The Ugly Americans!

Now trust me here... I'm not defending Owamba.... I'm not exactly on his Christmas Mailing list! snicker!
But in the case of whats going on in Libya.... Until the Intel is conclusive... Statements may endanger citizens of EVERY Country who are currently trapped in state! This isn't Egypt or Tunisia! This can be Dangerous for EVERYONE evolved! Sometimes Discretion IS the better part of Valor!

What.



And while you answer I will go off to bed.
NN.

Earth Cries wrote:UN ambassadors clash over condemnation of Gaddafi

Russia and China show reluctance to join other security council members' plan to put pressure on Libyan leader...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/un-ambassadors-clash-gaddafi

So let me get this straight. Outrage that Obama hasn't said shit, even though the white house has publicly condemed Gaddafi. But Medvedev and Hu don't even want to put pressure on Libya and thats ok? In 10 years China will be the worlds strongest superpower, shouldn't we expect more from them???

What a crazy world we live in, condemn the democratic republic but accept continued bad behavior from the commies.

The United States says it has not been able to move some of its non-essential diplomats from Libya, as governments send airplanes and ships to pick up their citizens stranded by Libya's bloody unrest.

State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Tuesday the United States was looking at various ways to move the diplomats, their families, and other Americans out of Libya. He did not elaborate on why the U.S. could not to do so on Tuesday.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Foreign-Countries-Send-Planes-Ships-to-Libya-to-Evacuate-Foreigners-116668079.html

After reading some of the discussion regarding the role the US should be playing.

I think it is smart they are quiet until they got their people out at least. Ghaddafi is not somebody to challenge. He has already said in his speech today "I challenge the US, all superpowers...". He will not be shy to attack foreign nationals.

Egypt has 1,5 Mio people in Lebanon, either working there in oil companies or living there. They are currently trying to figure out a way how to get them out. The airport of Benghazi has been destroyed. Many egyptians were shown today who have crossed the border. They have said mercenaries have attacked their buildings and 3 egyptians were killed.

I think once all countries gathered their people and get more reports, if this continues, they may intervene. If they said now they will do so, it would be putting the lives of their citizens in danger. And on the other hand, if the US now starts to make strong statements like they did with Egypt, it would undermine the cause of the protesters. As Ghaddafi is trying right now to convince everyone that there are foreign hands in this and that they will invade. It was tried here too, but people didn't believe it. But with mercenaries in the street and his own military using heavy artillery against citizens, this is a different ballgame.

I wish too that the violence will stop as soon as possible...but that now depends on Ghaddafi, not on the US or NATO...at least not yet.

Hi Babsi!

"As Ghaddafi is trying right now to convince everyone that there are foreign hands in this and that they will invade. It was tried here too, but people didn't believe it."

There are foreign hands in this; his "hired" hands.

Alaskan Girl wrote:"As Ghaddafi is trying right now to convince everyone that there are foreign hands in this and that they will invade. It was tried here too, but people didn't believe it."

There are foreign hands in this; his "hired" hands.

Hi,
yes that's true. But he's saying that to try to scare people that they might get invaded, he also mentioned if they want their country to be like Somalia, or if they want a radical islamic state. All scare tactics. Of course ppl are smarter now, these Dictators are all reading the same manual, and it probably worked 20 years ago, but not anymore .

It never ceases to Amaze me how the World Reacts......
They Burn our Flags.... Curse us like Dogs....
And Blame all the Problems of the World on our "Western Imperialism"

Yet when something happens in the world the first question asked is... "Where are the Americans?" The Ugly Americans!

Now trust me here... I'm not defending Owamba.... I'm not exactly on his Christmas Mailing list! snicker!
But in the case of whats going on in Libya.... Until the Intel is conclusive... Statements may endanger citizens of EVERY Country who are currently trapped in state! This isn't Egypt or Tunisia! This can be Dangerous for EVERYONE evolved! Sometimes Discretion IS the better part of Valor!

People want a GOOD Superpower, a US who DEFENDS people. Not a US who bombs the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan for made up reasons, torture people, ect...

Like with Egypt... people would have cheered if the US had sent a B-2 over Mubarak's palace and wipe it out.

Same thing with Libya. Locate Gadafi and his sons... then BOMB them, just them.

People would be happy with that.

IMO....

He who Seeks Truth wrote: ...
It never ceases to Amaze me how the World Reacts......
They Burn our Flags.... Curse us like Dogs....
And Blame all the Problems of the World on our "Western Imperialism"

Yet when something happens in the world the first question asked is... "Where are the Americans?" The Ugly Americans!

Now trust me here... I'm not defending Owamba.... I'm not exactly on his Christmas Mailing list! snicker!
But in the case of whats going on in Libya.... Until the Intel is conclusive... Statements may endanger citizens of EVERY Country who are currently trapped in state! This isn't Egypt or Tunisia! This can be Dangerous for EVERYONE evolved! Sometimes Discretion IS the better part of Valor!

+1
Finally, finally, we may be butting out of other people's problems and letting them solve it themselves. One side wins, the other side wins, the simple fact is I don't want to be involved. It is not my problem. And our internal policies are not their problem. A very nice symmetry, and good fences make good neighbors so then we can live in mutual respect.

That's what I think American foreign policy should be: "that's not my problem" policy.

Of course this means we really butt out. No sneaky CIA or special forces doing stuff behind the scenes, no US NGOs with government support trying to change societies. Out means out.

lolita wrote:

It never ceases to Amaze me how the World Reacts......
They Burn our Flags.... Curse us like Dogs....
And Blame all the Problems of the World on our "Western Imperialism"

Yet when something happens in the world the first question asked is... "Where are the Americans?" The Ugly Americans!

Now trust me here... I'm not defending Owamba.... I'm not exactly on his Christmas Mailing list! snicker!
But in the case of whats going on in Libya.... Until the Intel is conclusive... Statements may endanger citizens of EVERY Country who are currently trapped in state! This isn't Egypt or Tunisia! This can be Dangerous for EVERYONE evolved! Sometimes Discretion IS the better part of Valor!

People want a GOOD Superpower, a US who DEFENDS people. Not a US who bombs the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan for made up reasons, torture people, ect...

Like with Egypt... people would have cheered if the US had sent a B-2 over Mubarak's palace and wipe it out.

Same thing with Libya. Locate Gadafi and his sons... then BOMB them, just them.

People would be happy with that.

IMO....

I really think we should butt out. And not go in later. Just not go in at all. We need to be cured of this international involvement.

From what I've been able to glean, and I'm pleased to hear informed comments, this started out as an intertribal war within Libya. Gaddafi's tribe is the fourth largest, so he has only minority support, but he's been able to stay in the saddle for 40 years by playing other tribes off against each other. Gaddafi's tribe is probably an elite group, smarter than average. They control the Libyan air force, and flying fighter jets is usually a job for fairly smart people.

That's why we heard that his air force was going to bomb his army. The army is from a different tribe.

There have been defections, including from his air force (the two that flew to Malta.) But were they from his tribe, or from another one? I'm slightly curious about that.

Anyway it's for them to settle, which tribe or tribes runs Libya. I do not believe we should be taking sides, even to tell them that a popular election is the way they have to decide that question.

Obama doesn't know what to do because he's a tool.

When you have clear convictions, like freedom and the constitution, you stick with them, and people supports you...like Ron Paul acts.

Obama is just a sell out who will do anything to look good depending on the wind. You know he's not for freedom when he pushes for the renewal of the patriot act and continue to fund the ``Homeland Security`` gestapo, not to mention the TSA, illegal wiretapping, cameras and the like.

Obama, like Bush, doesn't like freedom at all.

Does anyone have a link for el presidente loco's crazier than bats*** speech of today in English text. I really want to read that word for word without the agony of having to look at Ghadaffi's face or hear his voice.

ZX12R wrote:

Earth Cries wrote:Had a horrible thought...what if the lunatic starts to bomb the neighboring countries?? I wouldn't put anything past him. He may want to take down the whole Mid East along with Libya.

He doesn't have the ability to do that. His armed forces are small and poorly equipped. Egypt alone could destroy Libya's entire armed forces in a few days, and without any backing from other countries. Just my opinion.

I was going to say the same thing. It is not just your opinion it is fact.

Muhajiir wrote:The general kissing him after speech was his own son, mutaseem!

Some tongue action?

trudat wrote:Does anyone have a link for el presidente loco's crazier than bats*** speech of today in English text. I really want to read that word for word without the agony of having to look at Ghadaffi's face or hear his voice.

Can't find a total translation anywhere. Seems no one had the stomach for it. Best I can recommend:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122216458913596.html

Oh, and if you do end up watching it, look at the reflection in his glasses. There was no one there.

Good Morning everyone

...
Elbagdadi:
BREAKING: Gaddafi troops are attacking Egypt aid convoys in the east and reports of deaths among the Egyptian activists
BRQ: Reports of two Egyptian drivers and one doctor killed in attack by pro-Gaddafi forces on aid convoy; 14 injured.


arghl..after reading the reports of the attacks on egypt aid convoy, I asked myself how long til they start taking hostages, attacking foreigners, or places where they are stranded, or planes which try to evecuate them..

thank god there are no reports yet beside the attacks on the aid convey...

Elbaghdadi:
Syrian website reports up to 5000 Syria citizens stranded in Tripoli airport right now

Getting some news that a "Free Libya" satellite channel will start airing on Nilesat soon (BRQ)

Lurker wrote:Good Morning everyone

...
Elbagdadi:
BREAKING: Gaddafi troops are attacking Egypt aid convoys in the east and reports of deaths among the Egyptian activists
BRQ: Reports of two Egyptian drivers and one doctor killed in attack by pro-Gaddafi forces on aid convoy; 14 injured.


arghl..after reading the reports of the attacks on egypt aid convoy, I asked myself how long til they start taking hostages, attacking foreigners, or places where they are stranded, or planes which try to evecuate them..

thank god there are no reports yet beside the attacks on the aid convey...

Elbaghdadi:
Syrian website reports up to 5000 Syria citizens stranded in Tripoli airport right now

Getting some news that a "Free Libya" satellite channel will start airing on Nilesat soon (BRQ)

CONFIRMED: Heavy artillery (anti-aircraft) being used against #Misratah, #Libya now! This is confirmed by phone call from a close friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL8pQHsU2G0&feature=player_embedded

That youtube video of Tripoli is crazy. Was posted at the Al Jazeera English live blog.

The guys with the construction helmets are apparently mercenaries like said before in this thread.

Confirmation at last: Fujran tribe denounce Gaddafi and join the revolution. Significant because concentrated around Sirt.

BelgianBoy wrote:

CONFIRMED: Heavy artillery (anti-aircraft) being used against #Misratah, #Libya now! This is confirmed by phone call from a close friend

Using it against whom?

I know they were using that before on protesters, there are some nasty pics of dead Libyan protests circling around the web.

Seems the country is going to break out into all out civil war.

BelgianBoy wrote:Confirmation at last: Fujran tribe denounce Gaddafi and join the revolution. Significant because concentrated around Sirt.

Apparently that is where Ghadaffi was born. Not sure exactly why the city is so significant though.

Coastal town further West towards Tripoli than Benghazi.

http://twitter.com/varlamov
Pro-Gaddafi Rally in Moscov
http://yfrog.com/gzdmdwhj


...
Elbaghdadi:
Aljazeera reports that Yusuf Sawwan, a close aide of Saif #Gaddafi, has resigned.

Reports from Al-Bayda: Bakeries giving bread for free; pharmacies giving medicine for free; neighborhood watches formed.

Disturbing reports that Qathaf-al-Dam, Gaddafi's envoy to Egypt, attempting to recruit Libyan tribes in Egypt to attack from the east.